Comments on The North Eastern Corner: E.A. or M.M.

"Q. What did the Worshipful Master then do with yo...

2009-01-26T10:02:00.000-05:00

"Q. What did the Worshipful Master then do with you? A. He made me a Mason in due form."

EA is when you are made a Mason. That's the date my Lodge takes as the date for your anniversary info, when looking at commemorating it.

"He said that I there stood, a just and upright Mason, and gave it me strictly in charge ever to walk and act as such."

"Where were you first made a Mason?......Where nex...

2009-01-25T22:15:00.000-05:00

"Where were you first made a Mason?......Where next?

Before we get too far off track, note that 3M didn...

2009-01-25T21:55:00.000-05:00

Before we get too far off track, note that 3M didn't say anything about when somebody became a Mason - he's talking more specifically about the most important date to a Mason. Arguing about what that date is - or should be - is entirely academic, because it might vary from person to person.

One of my lodges sent me a "Masonic birthday card" based on my MM date. I, of course, appreciate the gesture. As it happens, I don't have any particular feeling that my EA or MM was better or more important.

Of course, in US lodges, we tend to have degrees within a few weeks or a month of each other, which may account for my not feeling one was more important than the other.

But I do recall that when attending lodge as an EA and FC (yes, I was one of those who did go), that I felt a little badly about not being able to vote, and (to my thinking at the time) that my opinion in lodge matters would not be worth quite as much as those of the rest of my learned brethren (I was young and inexperienced, okay?), so at the time, I was happier to have finished my MM, and I did feel more a part of the lodge itself.

But that's just me.

So, again: 3M - if you weren't so damn lazy in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Justa,
Yes, it is true that an MD may call hims...

2009-01-25T17:53:00.000-05:00

Justa,
Yes, it is true that an MD may call himself and be called by others a Doctor, but he is not able to practice medicine by himself or exercise medical judgment without supervision. It is not until a Doctor has completed his residency can he be recognized as someone who can provide care independently and is on the hook for his mistakes.

Brothers are in a similar existence. An EA or FC is dependent on his Lodge for all things Masonic. It is not until a Brother has been entrusted with his MM that he is put on the level with all of his brothers and entrusted with all rights and obligations pertaining to his status.

Nick

Nick opined:
I think the Doctor analogy is ...

2009-01-25T13:58:00.000-05:00
Nick opined:
I think the Doctor analogy is very apt.

That being the case, almost counsellor, if one is a physician when he can write "Dr." before his name, an E.A. is therefore a Mason as he can write "Bro." before his name.

Certificates, voting, etc. are not germaine. Masters of Lodges have additional powers vested in them (and a "Wor." in front of their title). No one suggests M.Ms are not Masons because they don't have those additional rights.

An E.A. may not be a full member of the Lodge in some jurisdictions, but he certainly is a Mason.

Paul's point about 50-year pins to E.As. is an absurdity in my jurisdiction; no Lodge keeps an E.A. on the roll for 50 years. And I'm glad to know my journey ended when I finished my 3rd Degree ;)

MMM,
I am in agreement with Tom that a Master M...

2009-01-25T11:09:00.000-05:00
MMM,
I am in agreement with Tom that a Master Mason is the degree that is most important. You receive all of your rights at the time that you are raised. I think the Doctor analogy is very apt.

Right now, I am studying for the Bar. I am not an attorney at law. I have merely added a degree. So I may know the law but I cannot practice. Even after I take the Bar and should pass, I will still be reviewed by the Bar Examiners to determine if I am fit to be admitted to the Bar. It is only after I take the Oath that I become an attorney at law. Entered Apprentice is similar to being a JD. I am recognized by the public as "having" legal knowledge but I cannot practice law just as an EA has knowledge of our Fraternity but cannot participate within it. I am not an attorney until I have completed all of what is required just as an EA is not a full Mason until he is a MM. MM is the most important degree and if Masonic birthdays are important, I would rather be recognized as a Mason on the date that I am a full member and have taken my full Oath. Sure I know the date when I graduated from law school but I will not recognize my being an attorney at law until the date that I take my Oath.

Nick

My lazy sophomoric ways betray my deeper intention...

2009-01-25T09:58:00.000-05:00
My lazy sophomoric ways betray my deeper intentions.
Of course I will enter all of the dates into the database, I was just cutting a corner in the early stage of building it.
My intention of finding out the more important date was that I was thinking about sending out Masonic "birthday" cards and I presumed that it would mark the date of initiation, not raising(of which I still think I am correct). I should have been a little more informative in my original post.
By the way, I am ecstatic to know that a Brother in the country where my family came from and where I spent a lot of my young adulthood in, actually reads my little blog and contributed to the discussion.

Jumping back in. In Iowa we ask the new Brother f...

2009-01-25T08:46:00.000-05:00
Jumping back in. In Iowa we ask the new Brother for "something of a metallic kind as a memorial that he was here made a Mason" He was made a Mason in the E.A. Degree. Be that as is he does not get full rights until he proves proficiency on his third. We keep records of all three dates.

But he was still "made a Mason" when he got his E.A. so to me that is still the date that means the most to me.

In Ireland, we get voting rights in our lodge on b...

2009-01-25T08:34:00.000-05:00
In Ireland, we get voting rights in our lodge on being raised. Visiting other lodges becomes a right on being raised. That's when we sign our certificate, is when most lodges give the laws and constitutions, and the lodge bye-laws. It's also the date that is queried when being proposed for other branches of the order.

However, I've always had a very strong relationship with the degree of initiation, and as far as I'm concerned, that's when I "became" a mason!

As for choice of date within the database, I'd say it depends what you want to use it for :) both are significant, one for personal/spiritual reasons, and one for beurocratic. Is there any reason you can't store both? :)

As a fellowcraft currently, I am still experiencin...

2009-01-24T22:59:00.000-05:00
As a fellowcraft currently, I am still experiencing the degrees, but I had one observation to point out. One of my brothers was showing off his new lewis jewel over the coffee after my fellowcraft degree. I asked which dates were on the jewel for him and his father (the lewis commemorates a father and son mason.) I asked what dates were on the jewel - the 1st or 3rd degree. Apparently it was their third degree. Although I haven't received it yet, the GL implies that the 3rd is the official day you become a full mason.

For my part, I am cautious to see myself as a full-fledged mason until I undergo the third degree. I show up to all of the meetings, events etc. but I know that I am not an equal yet. Am I a mason? Yes. But not quite the equal of the elder brothers. This march, I hope to be raised by the brothers of Meridian Lodge 77, when that happens, I will then consider myself a true mason in all respects of the title and honors it confers.

I checked our lodge roster and we only list "raise...

2009-01-24T20:22:00.000-05:00
I checked our lodge roster and we only list "raised". While I appreciate your zeal for the EA, I have to agree with Tom that masonry is a right of passage and you are not a Mason until you complete the journey.

You are not a dues paying member as an EA and they don't give out 50year pins to brothers who never advance past EA.

Hmm.

We have a lot of "brothers" who seem ...

2009-01-24T16:14:00.000-05:00
Hmm.

We have a lot of "brothers" who seem to disappear after having been initiated. Yes, they are Masons in the sense that they are now able to claim membership via initiation, but so what? They - and anyone that takes the first step - are rightfully called "Entered Apprentices," but you need to focus on the "Apprentice" part. An intern or med student at the hospital is not a doctor.

That said, I also see that when you are entering those dates, you are making a judgment call based on your perspective. A man might have been made an EA, and then take years before he finally decides to go the rest of the way. What do you suppose is the most important date to him?

Trick question - the answer has nothing to do with what you think - it's what he thinks.

3M, just enter the rest of the damn dates, okay?

My GL gives 50 year pins based on the day of initi...

2009-01-24T04:20:00.000-05:00
My GL gives 50 year pins based on the day of initiation. That's when he becomes a Mason.

Justa

I would make a compromise and track the date of th...

2009-01-23T23:40:00.000-05:00
I would make a compromise and track the date of the Fellowcraft/Passing only ;-) It is where the real work of speculative Masonry begins.

I just blogged about this on Bailey's Buddy. I wr...

2009-01-23T23:15:00.000-05:00
I just blogged about this on Bailey's Buddy. I wrote: " First he is initiated. He is only initiated once. When he received the degree of an Entered Apprentice he becomes a Mason. The other ceremonies (or degrees) which he receives are sometimes called initiations but they aren't really. An Initiation is a rite of passage ceremony marking entrance or acceptance into a group or society. When Brother Ron entered the Lodge for the first time he was initiated. The Second time he is passed to the degree of a Fellowcraft and finally he is RAISED to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason. We refer to the three ceremonies as Invitation, Passing and Raising. Three different words for three different experiences."

I totally agree with you. You become a Mason once. that is the important date. All of the other ceremonies are just additional ceremonies.

Comments on The North Eastern Corner: E.A. or M.M.

"Q. What did the Worshipful Master then do with yo...

"Where were you first made a Mason?......Where nex...

Before we get too far off track, note that 3M didn...

Justa,Yes, it is true that an MD may call hims...

Nick opined: I think the Doctor analogy is ...

MMM,I am in agreement with Tom that a Master M...

My lazy sophomoric ways betray my deeper intention...

Jumping back in. In Iowa we ask the new Brother f...

In Ireland, we get voting rights in our lodge on b...

As a fellowcraft currently, I am still experiencin...

I checked our lodge roster and we only list "raise...

Hmm. We have a lot of "brothers" who seem ...

My GL gives 50 year pins based on the day of initi...

I would make a compromise and track the date of th...

I just blogged about this on Bailey's Buddy. I wr...

Justa,
Yes, it is true that an MD may call hims...

Nick opined:
I think the Doctor analogy is ...

MMM,
I am in agreement with Tom that a Master M...

Hmm.

We have a lot of "brothers" who seem ...